Malus Geneva series - Experiences

A place to discuss grafting, orcharding, and related topics.
gray_b
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:04 pm

Malus Geneva series - Experiences

Postby gray_b » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:22 pm

Anybody got any experiences of using G11, G16, G41 and G202

Growth, pest resistance and propagation techniques.

Please

nypaprojectw
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: NY zone 5b / PA zone 6a

Re: Malus Geneva series - Experiences

Postby nypaprojectw » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:10 pm

I have a few started last year on G.222 and G.11. I have not tried G.16 as it is reported to be virus sensitive and I do not have access to virus free scionwood.

You can find the patents on the Geneva rootstocks using the google patent search. I have found them interesting to examine although much has more has been learned about how they perform since the patents were filed.

tom hanlon
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Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:48 pm

Re: Malus Geneva series - Experiences

Postby tom hanlon » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:35 pm

Until the patents expire vegetative propagation is a violation of the patent.

Licensed propagators collect a fee when selling rootstock that I believe goes back to the patent holder.

stillgrowing
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:21 pm
Location: Battle Ground, Wa

Re: Malus Geneva series - Experiences

Postby stillgrowing » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:00 am

I am currently using G41 and G202 rootstocks. I have heavy clay soil and a high water table- difficult conditions. Both rootstocks are performing well, and are unaffected by canker.

nypaprojectw
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: NY zone 5b / PA zone 6a

Re: Malus Geneva series - Experiences

Postby nypaprojectw » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:27 am

Yes, ok to graft onto purchased patented rootstock but not ok to propagate the patented rootstock itself (layering, stool bed, tissue culture, grafting, cuttings, using as interstem, etc.) without a license.

In the US, G.65 is off patent but pretty much impossible to find. Cummins uses it a little. G.11 is also off patent based on the earliest filing date. I cannot find a G.30 USPP but if it was patented, it should be off patent based on when it was released. You would be ok to propagate those for your own use if you really wanted to. G.65 and G.11 are somewhat interesting for home use since they can be propagated by hardwood cuttings (according to the patents). If you tried to sell them as Geneva series rootstocks, however, you should expect to hear from Cornell's lawyers.

One has to wonder how useful patenting is to the Geneva program. They have so many in the pipeline and clearly are going towards releasing more to tailor roostock selection to the cultivar and site conditions and reducing the potential market share of each new rootstock. Given the cost of filing and maintaining patents, the limited amount of time they get patent protection vs time to grow the market, complaints about unauthorized propagation in China, and the costs of filing and maintaining patents, it makes more sense to go just continue their licensing scheme without patent protection.

BobVance
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Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:31 pm

Re: Malus Geneva series - Experiences

Postby BobVance » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:17 pm

I've got a bunch of trees on G11 and G16, as well as a couple mature(ish) and bunch of rootstocks on G65.

G11 and G16 are both pretty vigorous, while G65 is a pretty slow grower, though bigger than M27. I think I like B9 best, which is somewhere in between. I have a few new G41, which I like so far.

I've got half a dozen G11/MM111 interstems, which are precocious, but runt out badly. The one other interstem (B9/B118) is at least as big as G11, if not a bit bigger, while most of the G11/MM111 are similar to G65 (some smaller). I planted mine fairly high up, with the interstem completely above ground, which could be a factor.

I didn't realize that G65 was off patent (never looked). If anyone is interested in trying it as an interstem, I can send out a bit of wood which is growing from the rootstocks (I graft high up).

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smatthew
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Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Location: San Ramon, CA

Re: Malus Geneva series - Experiences

Postby smatthew » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:47 am

I spoke with the guy at Cummins nursery, and he suggested G.41 for my orchard - i'm aiming for more of a pedestrian style.
Fig and Blackberry farmer in Sunol, CA

Jim Lee
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:37 pm

Re: Malus Geneva series - Experiences

Postby Jim Lee » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:09 am

I bought 100 G 202 rootstock in 2013 and every one of the died within a years. I think the nursery sold me seconds, but charged me full price on those.
M 106 also die more often than not here. Neighbor has the same experience.
Bought 100 of each, G 41 & G 935, last year from a different nursery (most of these had more than one root).
85% of the G 41 are still alive.
98% of the G 935 are still alive.
The G 935 are growing twice as fast on average compared to the G 41.
I'm on the list for some G 890.

Based on my experiences with these rootstock, and my experiences with buying nursery grafted trees before I started grafting. I can see what a huge advantage a rootstock with a very high survivablility rate can make. M 111 survives well here also, but unfortunately most of the nursery grafted trees I had bought were on M 106.

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aphahn
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Location: Westminster CO 6a
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Re: Malus Geneva series - Experiences

Postby aphahn » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:08 am

I grafted G 222 and G 41 this spring. 41 had a better take rate and survived much longer in the fridge. To be fair the 41s were more robust stock and a great deal more roots. So far I like 41. Time will tell...
Andy - Zone 6a Lat 39.9º N, Altitude 5390' Westminster CO ⚘ Scion List

stellair
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:55 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Malus Geneva series - Experiences

Postby stellair » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:12 am

Hi all, for my apples I'm using G.41, B9, M9 FL56, M9 T.337, M27, Pi80, P16. The G.41 were the last which I bought because I'm, like 'stillgrowing', on more or less heavy clay/loam with a high water table and those G.41 are performing well against M9. (no suckers and no woolly apple aphids compared to M9 yet :evil: ). The growth is almost the same and the stem is nice, thick and healthy.
For the columnar apple varieties I use MM106
Belgian garden addict :mrgreen:


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